Curse

Daerien · May 03, 2008, 11:42 PM // 23:42

I'm kinda confused on how bow attacks with activation times (Penetrating/Sundering, Quick Shot, Hunter's Shot, etc.) work. I understand that they fire significantly faster than your autoattack (and that the activation time is actually 1/2 the displayed activation time), but my question is, what happens to your autoattack while you are using one of these bow attacks? E.g., say your autoattack is every 2 seconds:

0 sec: You autoattack
2 sec: You autoattack
4 sec: You autoattack

but say you activate Power Shot between autoattacks:

0 sec: You autoattack
1 sec: You use Power Shot
1.5 sec: Power Shot launches
?? sec: You autoattack

When would your next autoattack come? Does using bow attacks with activation times pause your autoattack timer?

Thanks in advance

viper11025 · May 04, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Its alot of math, but what I experiance is ur attack is interupted by the skill and your attack resets when you dont use the skill next time.

So basicly, using skills make you attack slower.

ogre_jd · May 04, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper11025

Its alot of math, but what I experiance is ur attack is interupted by the skill and your attack resets when you dont use the skill next time.

So basicly, using skills make you attack slower.

Using skills make you auto-attack slower, you mean. Unfortunately, most of the skills with activation times under 2 seconds (the firing rate of Flatbows & Shortbows, which are the fastest), have long recharge times so that you don't really get the benifit of the faster firing rate. Unless, that is, you have several attacks to alternate between...

moriz · May 04, 2008, 03:23 AM // 03:23

if the attack does not have a cast time, it will activate at the same speed as a normal attack.

if the attack does have a cast time, then the arrow will fire half way through the casting animation. for example, all bow interrupts fire in 1/4 seconds instead of 1/2 secs, the 1s cast attacks (power shot, penetrating shot etc) fire in 1/2 seconds.

another thing to note is that the bow interrupts have aftercast, while the 1s cast attacks do not.

Daerien · May 04, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

if the attack does not have a cast time, it will activate at the same speed as a normal attack.

if the attack does have a cast time, then the arrow will fire half way through the casting animation. for example, all bow interrupts fire in 1/4 seconds instead of 1/2 secs, the 1s cast attacks (power shot, penetrating shot etc) fire in 1/2 seconds.

another thing to note is that the bow interrupts have aftercast, while the 1s cast attacks do not.

I understand all this (and the tidbit about aftercasts is good to know) but how do skills with activation times affect your auto-attack? You definitely auto-attack less often when using 1s cast attacks, but how much slower?

SnipiousMax · May 05, 2008, 02:53 AM // 02:53

I'm not sure I really understand what this thread is about. Using skills do NOT slow down your autoattacking. Even using Interrupts (the only skills with aftercast delays) will not effect the total number of attacks you get in a set amount of time. Using attack skills with activation times INCREASES the number of attacks you do in a set amount of time. You may do less auto-attacks, but you do more total attacks overall. So I'm not sure what the concern is here. THE ONLY WAY SKILLS will slow down your overall attack speed is if you INTERRUPT the attack animation of your auto-attack. Using skills between shots does nothing to interrupt your attacking rhythm.

snaek · May 05, 2008, 03:01 AM // 03:01

ur next attack will come at wutever the attack speed of the bow is
(except interupts, which have aftercast time as previously mentioned)

for example...recurve fires every 2.4s
so if u use an attack skill, the next arrow will fire 2.4s after that skill was activated

moriz · May 05, 2008, 03:06 AM // 03:06

not quite, because you actually do not fire the bow at the end of the firing animation. you fire it about 2/3 into the animation.

what the bow attacks WILL do is force you to restart the "draw arrow, fire arrow" animation, and therefore slow your firing rate slightly.

SnipiousMax · May 05, 2008, 01:43 PM // 13:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

not quite, because you actually do not fire the bow at the end of the firing animation. you fire it about 2/3 into the animation.

what the bow attacks WILL do is force you to restart the "draw arrow, fire arrow" animation, and therefore slow your firing rate slightly.

Again, using the skill between the release of the previous arrow, and before the attack animation begins on the next attack will not interrupt the firing animation.

Regardless, years back when we were testing the effects of an IAS on Barrage, we found that any interrupts to the attack sequence were completely insignificant, even when the attack animation had to reset. So I'm still not convinvced that you are losing anything by using an attack skill.

anshin · May 05, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

0 > Auto-attack
2 > " "
4 > Power Shot
5 > Penetrating Attack
6 > Auto-attack
8 > Etcetera

This is what happens right? Either way, i agree with Snipious, just do a count and you'll see you will auto-attack less, but the damage output should be higher.

Molock · May 05, 2008, 07:09 PM // 19:09

If you activate an attack skill while you are firing you will interupt the auto-attack animation and will start using the skill. After you have used the skill, your auto-attack rate won't accelerate, you will resume with the bows attack speed. That's what I think happens.

Daerien · May 05, 2008, 08:11 PM // 20:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnipiousMax

Again, using the skill between the release of the previous arrow, and before the attack animation begins on the next attack will not interrupt the firing animation.

Regardless, years back when we were testing the effects of an IAS on Barrage, we found that any interrupts to the attack sequence were completely insignificant, even when the attack animation had to reset. So I'm still not convinvced that you are losing anything by using an attack skill.

According to that, this is what would happen:

0 sec: You autoattack
2 sec: You autoattack
2.5 sec: You cast Power Shot
3.5 sec: Power Shot launches
4 sec: You autoattack
6 sec: You autoattack

But the thing is, this isn't what I'm seeing in-game. 1sec skills don't seem to "weave" into your autoattack timer at all. Here's what I'm seeing:

0 sec: You autoattack
2 sec: You autoattack
2.5 sec: You cast Power Shot
3.5 sec: Power Shot launches
~5.5 sec: You autoattack
~7.5 sec: You autoattack

It seems to be resetting your autoattack timer, or at least pausing it. Any thoughts?

SnipiousMax · May 05, 2008, 08:34 PM // 20:34

Okay, since I seemed to be misunderstanding, let's set up a scenario.

Over the course of ten seconds, a ranger using a shortbow (easiest scenario) auto-attacking a practice dummy.

0 secs: Begin Attack animation
2 secs: Begin Second attack animation
4 secs: Begin third attack animation
6 secs: Begin fourth attack animation
8 secs: Begin fifth attack animation
10 secs: Begin sixth attack animation.

Now lets throw a 1 sec attack in there.

0 secs: Begin 1st attack animation
2 secs: Begin 2nd attack animation
4 secs: 1 sec attack animation
5 secs: Begin 3rd attack animation
7 secs: Begin 4th attack animation
9 secs: Begin 5th attak animation.

Each attack of course will finish before the next one starts. That is how it should work. Are you experiencing an aftercast after using a 1 sec attack skill? The difference between powershot beginning and your next shot beginning should be about 1 sec, barring any aftercast.

snaek · May 05, 2008, 11:57 PM // 23:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daerien

According to that, this is what would happen:

0 sec: You autoattack
2 sec: You autoattack
2.5 sec: You cast Power Shot
3.5 sec: Power Shot launches
4 sec: You autoattack
6 sec: You autoattack

But the thing is, this isn't what I'm seeing in-game. 1sec skills don't seem to "weave" into your autoattack timer at all. Here's what I'm seeing:

0 sec: You autoattack
2 sec: You autoattack
2.5 sec: You cast Power Shot
3.5 sec: Power Shot launches
~5.5 sec: You autoattack
~7.5 sec: You autoattack

It seems to be resetting your autoattack timer, or at least pausing it. Any thoughts?

*sigh*

its not -interrupting- ur attack animation
but yes it is -resetting- it

let me use a music analogy:

auto-attack is not a continious action...
its 1 action on a repeat
attack->attack->attack->attack
not attack(infinite)

in music, its not a 5:00min song...
its a 1:00min song repeating over and over again

so in gw...it goes like this:

attack (2.4s)
attack (2.4s)
attack (2.4s)
powershot (1.0s)
attack (2.4s)

if u dun time the powershot properly...it will go like this:
attack (2.4s)
attack (2.4s)
attack->cancel (1.6s) -- no arrow fired
powershot (1.0s)
attack (2.4s)

ShadowsRequiem · May 06, 2008, 02:00 AM // 02:00

Only thing to add is to remember that when interrupting there is a 3/4 sec aftercast when firing your second interrupt. That is if you went back to back interrupts. Like with ranger spike Dual>punishing>3/4 after cast savage shot

And I agree with moriz its not quite stopping or interrupting your attack its kinda redoing or resetting like snaek said.

Daerien · May 06, 2008, 05:11 AM // 05:11

Here's what I meant. So say you're using a shortbow, 2.0 sec autoattack. Without using any casttime skills, here's what your attacking would look like:

0.0 sec: Autoattack
2.0 sec: Autoattack
4.0 sec: Autoattack
6.0 sec: Autoattack
8.0 sec: Autoattack

etc.

Now say you hit Power Shot RIGHT AFTER your 2nd autoattack:

0.0 sec: Autoattack
2.0 sec: Autoattack (and immediately afterwards you activate Power Shot)
3.0 sec: Power Shot launches
5.0 sec: Autoattack
7.0 sec: Autoattack

Sounds good so far? Now what if you hit Power Shot 0.5 seconds after your 2nd autoattack, instead of immediately afterwards:

0.0 sec: Autoattack
2.0 sec: Autoattack
2.5 sec: You hit Power Shot
3.5 sec: Power Shot launches
5.5 sec: Autoattack
7.5 sec: Autoattack

In essence you took 0.5 seconds longer to get the same attacks in, right? So my question is, should you always use casttime attacks IMMEDIATELY after an autoattack?

snaek · May 06, 2008, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daerien

In essence you took 0.5 seconds longer to get the same attacks in, right? So my question is, should you always use casttime attacks IMMEDIATELY after an autoattack?

yes

unless that attack skill is an interupt, in which case
u'd want to try to get it to actually interupt stuffs
(unless ur like using punishing shot as a dmg spike with interupt as a bonus effect, etc)

Daerien · May 07, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaek

yes

unless that attack skill is an interupt, in which case
u'd want to try to get it to actually interupt stuffs
(unless ur like using punishing shot as a dmg spike with interupt as a bonus effect, etc)

Thank you, this is what I was looking for. So casttime attacks DO reset your autoattack timer.

oles · May 09, 2008, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daerien

Sounds good so far? Now what if you hit Power Shot 0.5 seconds after your 2nd autoattack, instead of immediately afterwards:

0.0 sec: Autoattack
2.0 sec: Autoattack
2.5 sec: You hit Power Shot
3.5 sec: Power Shot launches
5.5 sec: Autoattack
7.5 sec: Autoattack

In essence you took 0.5 seconds longer to get the same attacks in, right? So my question is, should you always use casttime attacks IMMEDIATELY after an autoattack?

Not quite. This would happen.

0.0 sec: Autoattack
2.0 sec: Autoattack
2.5 sec: You hit Power Shot
3.0 sec: Power Shot launches
5.0 sec: Autoattack
7.0 sec: Autoattack

The length of attack skill animations, between activation and firing, is 1/2 of listed activation times.
However, if using an attack skill while already autoattacking, there's an artificial delay added in between the previous attack firing and the attack skill animation, so as to make the time difference between the previous attack firing and the next one firing no less than the listed activation time.

In other words:

2.0 - previous attack fires, Power Shot activated
2.0-2.5 - artificial delay
2.5-3.0 - Power Shot animation
3.0 - Power Shot fires

2.0 - previous attack fires
2.5 - Power Shot Activated
2.5-3.0 - Power Shot animation
3.0 - Power Shot fires

2.0 - previous attack fires
3.0 - Power Shot activated
3.0-3.5 - Power Shot animation
3.5 - Power Shot fires

Quote:

So my question is, should you always use casttime attacks IMMEDIATELY after an autoattack?

No, you have a leeway of 1/2 listed activation time.

This is both a blessing and a curse.
One one hand, you don't have to twitch every timed attack skill.
On the other hand, this can screw your interrupts, if you happen to hit them just at the wrong moment (right after a previous attack), so they take the full 0.5sec to activate, instead of the more common 0.25 sec.
That's why, sometimes and with just the right amount of latency, one can miss 3/4sec skills with interrupts even at point blank range.

Daerien · May 10, 2008, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Thanks oles, that was extremely helpful.

Soooo, in summation:

Casttime bow attacks reset your autoattack, which means: after a casttime bow attack (Power Shot for example) successfully launches, your next autoattack will come no sooner than x seconds, where x is your attack speed.
Because of this, it's more efficient to use casttime bow attacks right after an autoattack.
Casttime bow attacks activate in 1/2 their listed time.
BUT, there is a delay (aftercast?) after every attack that is long enough to ensure that if you hit a casttime attack immediately afterward, it doesn't launch any sooner than x seconds later, where x is its listed activation time.

Did I get this right?